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Jesus the Jew within Judaism – Tracing Jesus Beyond Christianity – A Jewish Reclamation of Jesus!


Was Paul Invented by Marcion Based Upon the Life of Josephus?

The theory that Paul was invented by Marcion is based on the similarities between the two men. They both spent time in the wilderness and worked for Rome to pacify the Zealots. Some scholars believe that these similarities are too great to be a coincidence. They argue that Marcion may have created Paul as a fictional character based on Josephus’s writings. This would have allowed Marcion to promote his own theological views.

In his book “James the Brother of Jesus,” Robert Eisenman delves into the parallels between Josephus and Paul. Eisenman suggests that Paul could have been influenced by the Dead Sea Scrolls and might have even been associated with the Qumran community. Various theories are put forward concerning the origin of Paul. One possibility is that Josephus or someone related to him invented Paul, while another is that someone post-Josephus era might have created him.

Richard Carrier, in “On the Historicity of Jesus,” extensively explores the theory that Paul was a product of Marcion’s modification in the second century CE. Carrier argues that Paul’s writings lack historical reliability and may have been craftily edited by Marcion to serve his theological purposes. Moreover, Eisenman presents the idea that Paul was a fictional character created by Marcion, drawing inspiration from Josephus’s writings as a source for his own work. These theories present intriguing possibilities, although a consensus among scholars regarding Paul’s existence remains elusive.

Some scholars suggest that potentially Marcion, a second-century Christian theologian, may have invented Paul or even someone from the Marcion Camp. There is not a consensus among scholars about whether or not Paul was a real person. However, the parallels between Josephus and Paul are certainly intriguing.

The hypothesis of “Caesar’s Messiah” and “Creating Christ” proposes that Rome could have either invented or redacted Paul’s story. This theory suggests that Paul was shaped by the Roman government to create a more compliant and controllable form of Christianity. Paul’s writings often seem to promote Roman values and interests, advocating for obedience to the government, payment of taxes, and avoiding political involvement to maintain order and stability in the empire.

John Dominic Crossan also discusses the parallels between Josephus and Paul in “The Historical Jesus,” arguing that Paul’s writings were influenced by the Roman imperial cult. While Crossan believes Paul to be a real person, he acknowledges that Paul’s writings were shaped by Roman imperial ideology. These authors concur that there are significant parallels between Josephus and Paul, suggesting that Paul’s writings might have been influenced by Josephus’s works. Both Josephus and Paul were Jewish men who their writings extensively explore the relationship between Christianity and Rome.

Bart Ehrman’s perspective in “Misquoting Jesus” proposes that the New Testament underwent redaction by various individuals over time, with Marcion being one of the influential redactors. Furthermore, the redaction of the New Testament involved multiple layers of edits over generations. This process aimed to align the New Testament with specific theological views and make it compatible with Roman culture, possibly involving Marcion and the Roman government.

The authors also agree that Marcion may have played a role in the redaction of Paul’s writings. Marcion rejected the Hebrew Bible and argued that the only true gospel was the teachings of Jesus as found in the letters of Paul. Marcion edited Paul’s writings to make them more consistent with his own views. Roman redactors and early Roman Catholicism continued the tradition of theological redaction. These are just a few of the authors who have seen parallels between Josephus and Paul, and who have suggested that Marcion may have invented or redacted Paul.

The redaction of the New Testament refers to the process by which the original texts of the New Testament were edited, modified, and even rewritten over time. This process was often done by people who wanted to promote their own theological views or to make the New Testament more compatible with Roman culture. As a result, the New Testament that we have today is not a completely accurate representation of the original teachings of Jesus.

The theory that Marcion and Rome added layers of redaction to the New Testament is a more controversial one. However, there is some evidence to support this theory. For example, the New Testament contains a number of passages that seem to promote Roman values and interests. These passages may have been added by later editors who wanted to make the New Testament more palatable to the Roman government.

In his book The Historical Jesus, Crossan argues that the Roman government was responsible for redacting the New Testament in order to make it more compatible with Roman values and interests. Richard Horsley has written extensively about the role of Rome in the suppression of early Christianity. In his book Jesus and Empire, Horsley argues that the Roman government was responsible for redacting the New Testament in order to make it more compatible with Roman values and interests.

The co-opting of Rome to modify the narrative refers to the way in which the Roman government was able to influence the development of Christianity by sponsoring the spread of Paul’s writings and by supporting the early Christian church. This allowed the Roman government to exert some control over the direction of Christianity and to ensure that it did not become a threat to the empire.

The theory that Paul was created based on the life of Josephus is just one of many theories about the origins of Paul. The idea that Rome might have added layers of redaction to the New Testament remains contentious. However, there is some evidence supporting this theory, it is a theory that is worth considering, such as passages promoting Roman values and interests, which might have been added later by editors to appease the Roman government.

In conclusion, the theory that Paul was invented or redacted by Marcion, Rome, or a combination of influences is a complex and debated topic. While it raises thought-provoking questions about the origins of Christianity and the potential influence of external factors, it remains a subject of ongoing scholarly discussion. The arguments put forth by these scholars are intricate and multifaceted, shedding light on the complexities of early Christian history and the role of Rome in shaping its development.



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About The Pulling the Thread Podcast

Pulling the Thread is a captivating podcast that delves into a plethora of thought-provoking topics. With its engaging episodes and insightful discussions, it offers a fresh perspective on various subjects, serving as a valuable source of inspiration and knowledge. Whether you’re a seasoned podcast enthusiast or a curious newcomer, Pulling the Thread guarantees to captivate your mind and keep you coming back for more. So, gear up and embark on an intellectual journey with this exceptional podcast!

The Pulling the Threads Podcast’s primary objective is to study and analyze Jesus within his Jewish context through the lens of Judaism before Christianity. Our primary objective is to study and analyze Jesus within his Jewish context, specifically from a pre-Christianity perspective. Seeking a Jewish Reclamation of Jesus, relying on Jewish and secular biblical scholars who specialize in Second Temple Judaism, the Qumran community, the Parting of Ways around 90 CE, the Historical Jesus, and Textual Criticism. Some notable scholars mentioned include Geza Vermes, Hyam Maccoby, Alan Segal, Carol Harris-Shapiro, Lawrence Kushner, Samuel Sandmel, Bart Ehrman, James Tabor, Robert Eisenman, Paula Frederiksen, and Hugh Schonfield.

The site aims to approach the New Testament using the historical-critical method and textual criticism within the realm of secular Jewish scholarship, reflecting the perspectives of mainstream Judaism today. Engaging in scholarly and polemical discussions, the group seeks to question and challenge established Christian doctrines. The main goal is to establish an independent Jewish understanding of Jesus, emphasizing his significance within a Jewish context and distancing him from centuries of Christian interpretations. Furthermore, the group aims to conduct a comprehensive historical examination of Jesus, employing textual criticism to counter Christianity’s claims regarding the New Testament. The focus is on understanding Jesus within Judaism based on the Torah and Talmud.

This is about Jewish and Secular Scholarship into the New Testament using the Historical Critical method and Textual Criticism within Jewish scholarship. For us Jews, the Tanakh and Talmud inform our view of scripture. In the modern age, as Jews, we struggle with texts with an academic approach. The site is pro-Tanakh and will explore history, archaeology, and textual criticism to comprehend the development of the Jesus movement before the parting of ways with Judaism. It aims to emphasize that Jesus and his followers were seen as Jewish and part of Judaism, and that the conversion of Gentiles to Judaism by the community of James and Peter continued, with some Jewish followers remaining distinctly Jewish for centuries. It is important to note that this is not a study of Jewish-Christians, but rather an examination of Jews who followed Jesus within Judaism before the emergence of Christianity. Anti-Judaism is not welcome in this group, which focuses on Jewish perspectives within an academic framework.

This is an attempt to work out the Jewish Reclamation of Jesus, trying to understand him within Judaism before Christianity existed. The group’s objective is to understand Jesus within Judaism before the influence of Christian perspectives during the historical Jesus movement. It seeks to reclaim Jesus within Judaism, separate from Christianity, Messianic, or Hebrew Roots movements. The study incorporates textual criticism, historical Jesus research, and Jewish scholarship into the New Testament to assert the following beliefs:

  • The New Testament lacks historical accuracy.
  • The New Testament is not divinely inspired.
  • The New Testament has not been divinely preserved.
  • The New Testament was written by individuals decades and even millennia after the events it portrays.
  • Original autographs of the New Testament do not exist.
  • Consequently, the New Testament is not the most reliable source for understanding the historical Jesus as a Jewish figure.
  • To ascertain historical accuracy, we rely on modern Jewish and secular scholarship and engage in historical reconstruction.
  • Through textual criticism, we strive to identify the potentially most authentic sayings of Jesus, following the Q hypothesis in relation to the synoptic gospels.
  • The New Testament bears the influence of Roman culture and language, making it a non-Jewish text with glimpses of Jewish source material.
  • Greco-Roman influences, including Hellenistic, Stoic, Gnostic, and paganistic elements (e.g., Zoroastrianism) and the Roman imperial cult, have shaped New Testament ideas of salvation and hell in a manner contrary to Jewish tradition, resulting in a narrative distinct from the Jewish religion.
  • Both Jewish and secular scholarship acknowledge approximately 500,000 textual errors among the 5,800 New Testament manuscripts. These variations include theological revisions that were added by later editors and were not believed by the original followers.
  • The seven most authentic epistles of Paul were written prior to the gospels, with the gospels reflecting the addition of Pauline theology.
  • Jesus might have been an actual person, with the only point of agreement among Jewish scholars being that he was baptized by John for the repentance of sins and was crucified.
  • Jewish scholars concur that Jesus was not born of a virgin, was not resurrected, is not a savior, may be considered a false prophet, and failed as the Messiah.
  • Judaism represents the religion of Jesus, while Christianity is a religion centered around Jesus.
  • The term “Jewish-Christian,” used to describe the early understanding of Jesus in Judaism, is a misnomer.

Understanding Jesus within Judaism can aid us in grappling with a culture in which Christianity has altered the Jewish message. Given the history of crusades, pogroms, the Holocaust, and inquisitions that have harmed the Jewish people, recognizing Jesus within a Jewish context becomes crucial.

The Catholic Church, in Nostra Aetate, ceased evangelizing Jews and acknowledged them as a covenant people within Judaism. In response, Jewish scholars released Dibre Emet, recognizing the place of Righteous Gentiles, including the offspring of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, in Olam HaBa (the world to come). While agreement may not be necessary, it is important to foster understanding and coexistence.

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