New Podcast Episode: Messianic MythBusters: How The Church Got It Wrong? Beyond the Stained Glass… Rethinking Christianity, Ebionites, New Covenant & Theological Debates with Richard Cortes

March 4, 2024

New Podcast Episode: Messianic MythBusters: How The Church Got It Wrong? Beyond the Stained Glass… Rethinking Christianity, Ebionites, New Covenant & Theological Debates with Richard Cortes

In this upcoming Pulling The Threads Podcast episode, Jeramiah Giehl engages in a thought-provoking conversation with Richard Cortes, building on their previous discussion with David Leblanc. The focus turns to the religious beliefs of the Ebionites, unraveling layers of misinterpretations, and questioning established theological norms. They emphasized that Jesus could only be categorized as either the Christian Jesus or a Torah-observing Jesus, with no middle ground. They also discussed the misinterpretation of biblical texts, particularly the concept of Jesus as the suffering Messiah, and criticized Christianity’s interpretation of the new covenant.

Join Jeramiah and Richard as they delve into fascinating discussions!

This episode promises insightful and thought-provoking discussions, making it a must-listen for anyone interested in exploring the complexities of religious beliefs and interpretations. Delving into the concept of the New Covenant and the beliefs of the Ebionites, Jeramiah and Richard Cortes engage in a thought-provoking discussion. Here’s a summary of key points:

The Ebionites Strike Back: Debunking the Myths of Christian Origins: Explore the beliefs of this group who viewed Jesus as a prophet, challenging the notion of a singular “middle ground” Jesus.

Beyond the Binary: Rethinking Jesus and the Christian Narrative: According to Richard, Jesus can only be seen as either the Christian Jesus or a Torah-observing Jew, not a blend of both.
The Ebionite Enigma: Challenging Christian Supremacy: Jeramiah clarifies that the historical Ebionites, who were Essenes, viewed Jesus as a prophet calling for reform, not a king or military leader. Richard highlights that modern Ebionites follow Christian doctrines and are not related to the historical group.

The New Covenant Conspiracy: Was Jesus a Fabrication?: Examine differing interpretations of this concept and its significance within Judaism and Christianity. Examine differing interpretations of the New Covenant, questioning the universality applied by Christianity and emphasizing the importance of contextual understanding.

Cracking the Code: Unveiling the Secrets of the New Covenant: They argue that the New Covenant, as described in the Torah, applies specifically to the house of Israel and Judah, not all people. They also criticize the Christian rejection of the Torah and the Law.

Beyond the Stained Glass Ceiling: Dismantling Dogma: Explore how certain translations and cultural understandings can shape our interpretations of scripture. Analyze the potential misinterpretations of biblical passages, particularly regarding the “suffering Messiah” concept and the influence of translation and education on interpretations.

Messiah Meltdown: Focus on the “suffering Messiah” concept: They discuss the misuse of certain Isaiah passages by Christians to support this idea, while ignoring contradictory parts of the text.
Rewriting the Bible: Debunking Christian Misinterpretations: Richard highlights the role of translation in shaping interpretation and suggests a potential bias in promoting certain interpretations. Discuss the significance of understanding the Hebrew term “alma” and its implications within Jewish culture. He also criticizes the lack of Hebrew education in Christian seminaries, which he sees as hindering understanding and potentially perpetuating anti-Semitic views.
Roman influence on Christian theology: The influence of Greek and Roman philosophies on Christian theology. Jeramiah points out the influence of Roman culture and government on the development of Christian theology, including potential anti-Semitic undertones.

Other Discussions:

Significance of Isaiah 7:14: Richard emphasizes its importance in establishing the divinity of Jesus in Christianity, while criticizing the Greek Septuagint translation and highlighting the authenticity of the Hebrew Masoretic text.
Hebrew term interpretation and Jewish faith: Richard and Jeramiah emphasize the importance of reading original Tanakh texts to avoid misinterpretations. They also discuss the incompatibility of Jesus as a divine savior figure with traditional Jewish beliefs.
Christian Theology and Jewish Origins: The concept of the “Memra” (Logos) and its evolution in Christian thought.Uncover the evolution of the “word of God” concept from Jewish roots to its role in Christian theology, highlighting the influence of Platonic thought and the development of Binitarianism and Trinitarianism.
Talmudic Literature and Dualism: Richard warns against misinterpretations and misuse of these texts by Christians and clarifies the concept of dualism, emphasizing its incorrect separation of aspects like mercy from their source.
Theological conversation: The nature of Satan and contrasting views in Judaism and Christianity. Engage in a thought-provoking discussion about language, capital punishment, the nature of Satan, and the contrasting views of afterlife and individual accountability, contrasting Jewish and Christian perspectives on these topics.
Religion, accountability, and Christianity: The conversation concludes by exploring the historical use of religion for control, skepticism towards unproven concepts, and the importance of personal responsibility within religious contexts.

Overall, this podcast episode offers a thought-provoking discussion on the New Covenant, the Ebionites, and the complexities of interpreting religious texts and traditions.

Podcast Summary Breakdown:

Podcast Interview on Ebionites’ Religious Beliefs
Jeramiah and Richard Cortes held a discussion about a podcast interview related to their previous conversation with David Leblanc. Richard shared his observations about the FOTW center’s visitors and suggested that the discussion would continue in their next meeting. The interview focused on the religious beliefs of the Ebionites, a group of people who believed Jesus was just another “Prophet” who failed to fulfill the roles of a “Messiah” in Jewish tradition. Richard emphasized that Jesus could only be categorized as either the Christian Jesus or a Torah-observing Jew, with no middle ground. Jeramiah added that the historical Ebionites, who were a branch of the Essenes, didn’t view Jesus as a King or Military Leader, but rather as a Prophet calling for the end of Temple Sacrifice. Richard highlighted that the modern Ebionites, follow Christian doctrines, not related to the historical.

New Covenant Interpretation Debate
Jeramiah and Richard Cortes discussed the concept of the new covenant as described in the Torah, challenging the Christian interpretation of the concept. Jeramiah and Richard Cortes criticized Christianity’s interpretation of the New Covenant as applying to “all people,” not just the “house of Israel and Judah,” as well as its rejection of the Torah and the law. They concluded by highlighting the dangers of misinterpreting the new covenant and the importance of reading the text in its entire context.

Biblical Text Misinterpretation Discussed
Jeramiah and Richard Cortes discussed the misinterpretation of biblical texts, particularly the concept of Jesus as the suffering Messiah. They agreed that Christians misuse certain passages in Isaiah to support their beliefs, ignoring the rest of the text that contradicts this idea. Richard emphasized the role of translation in shaping interpretation and suggested that the church has a vested interest in promoting certain interpretations. They also discussed the lack of Hebrew education in Christian seminaries, which Richard sees as a deliberate attempt to control thought and maintain anti-Semitic views. Jeramiah pointed out the influence of Roman culture and government on the development of Christian theology, including its anti-Semitic undertones.

Significance of Isaiah 7:14 in Christianity
Jeramiah and Richard Cortes discussed the significance of Isaiah 7:14 in Christianity. Richard Cortes emphasized that this verse is crucial to the Christian faith as it establishes the divinity of Jesus, which is a foundational belief of Christianity. He also criticized the translation of the verse in the Greek Septuagint, suggesting that it has been altered to support a particular interpretation. Richard Cortes also highlighted the authenticity of the Hebrew Masoretic text and its preservation over centuries.

Hebrew Term Interpretation and Jewish Faith
Richard and Jeramiah engaged in a conversation about the interpretation of the Hebrew term “alma” and its implications in Jewish culture. Both agreed on the need to encourage people to read the original texts of the Tanakh (Old Testament) to avoid misinterpretations. A significant part of their discussion revolved around the concept of Jesus being a divine savior figure and its incompatibility with Jewish faith. Jeramiah highlighted that the concept contradicted Jewish beliefs as enshrined in the Torah and was not a unique idea, with influences from Roman and Greek mythology. The discussion ended without a clear resolution, but there was an agreement on the need to understand the Jewish view of the Torah and G-d contextually.

Christian Theology and Jewish Origins
Richard and Jeramiah discussed the concept of the “Memra” (Logos) or “word of God” in the context of Christian theology, its origins in Jewish faith, and its evolution into the figure of Jesus. Jeramiah expanded on this, pointing out that the Gospel of John was heavily influenced by Platonic thought and was instrumental in deifying Jesus. They also touched upon the development of Binitarianism and Trinitarianism, with Jeramiah highlighting their departure from traditional Jewish beliefs.

Talmudic Literature Interpretation and Dualism Misunderstanding
Richard discussed the interpretation of Talmudic literature by Christians, emphasizing the risk of misunderstanding and misuse of the texts. He highlighted that many Christians mistakenly believe that if a Jewish person speaks about a concept, it must be true, regardless of the validity of their knowledge. They also touched upon the idea of dualism, stating that it incorrectly separates aspects like mercy from the entity it originates from.

Theological Conversation on Language and Satan’s Nature
Richard and Jeramiah had a theological conversation about language, capital punishment, and the nature of Satan. They clarified the misinterpretation of the word ‘one’, emphasizing that it referred to a cardinal number, not a plurality. They also touched upon the concept of purification and the “afterlife” in Judaism, contrasting it with the Christian idea of “eternal torture.” The conversation also focused on the role of Satan, with Jeramiah proposing that Satan is not a “fallen angel” or “demigod,” but rather a “prosecuting attorney in the court of heaven.” They concluded by noting the differences between Christian and Jewish perspectives on faith, focusing on the concept of free will, good inclination and the role of Satan.

Religion, Christianity, and Accountability
Richard and Jeramiah had a wide-ranging discussion about religion, with a particular focus on Christianity. They explored how religion has been used to control people throughout history and expressed skepticism towards certain religious concepts that cannot be tested or proven. They also discussed the role of personal responsibility in religious contexts and the potential for religion to enable a lack of accountability. Richard Cortes highlighted the issue of blame culture among fundamentalist Christians. The conversation also touched on the concept of salvation in Christianity and the importance of understanding Jewish thought and culture for a deeper understanding of the Bible.

Podcast Summary: Unraveling Religious Threads with Richard Cortes

In this enlightening episode of the Pulling The Threads Podcast, Jeramiah Giehl engages in a captivating dialogue with Richard Cortes, expanding on their prior discussion with David Leblanc. The spotlight shifts to the religious beliefs of the Ebionites, offering a meticulous exploration of historical context and deviations from their original doctrine. Delving into the misinterpretation of biblical texts, the duo challenges conventional Christian views on the new covenant, emphasizing the importance of contextual understanding. The significance of Isaiah 7:14 in Christianity is dissected, unveiling the complexities of translation and text authenticity. Navigating through topics like Christian theology’s roots, Talmudic literature interpretation, and theological nuances on Satan’s nature, the conversation weaves a tapestry of insights. From language intricacies to the pitfalls of a blame culture in fundamentalist Christianity, the episode unfolds as a rich exploration of religious history, theology, and the delicate threads that bind or unravel faith. Tune in for a profound journey into the intersections of belief, interpretation, and accountability.

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About The Pulling the Thread Podcast

Pulling the Thread is a captivating podcast that delves into a plethora of thought-provoking topics. With its engaging episodes and insightful discussions, it offers a fresh perspective on various subjects, serving as a valuable source of inspiration and knowledge. Whether you’re a seasoned podcast enthusiast or a curious newcomer, Pulling the Thread guarantees to captivate your mind and keep you coming back for more. So, gear up and embark on an intellectual journey with this exceptional podcast!

The Pulling the Threads Podcast’s primary objective is to study and analyze Jesus within his Jewish context through the lens of Judaism before Christianity. Our primary objective is to study and analyze Jesus within his Jewish context, specifically from a pre-Christianity perspective. Seeking a Jewish Reclamation of Jesus, relying on Jewish and secular biblical scholars who specialize in Second Temple Judaism, the Qumran community, the Parting of Ways around 90 CE, the Historical Jesus, and Textual Criticism. Some notable scholars mentioned include Geza Vermes, Hyam Maccoby, Alan Segal, Carol Harris-Shapiro, Lawrence Kushner, Samuel Sandmel, Bart Ehrman, James Tabor, Robert Eisenman, Paula Frederiksen, and Hugh Schonfield.

The site aims to approach the New Testament using the historical-critical method and textual criticism within the realm of secular Jewish scholarship, reflecting the perspectives of mainstream Judaism today. Engaging in scholarly and polemical discussions, the group seeks to question and challenge established Christian doctrines. The main goal is to establish an independent Jewish understanding of Jesus, emphasizing his significance within a Jewish context and distancing him from centuries of Christian interpretations. Furthermore, the group aims to conduct a comprehensive historical examination of Jesus, employing textual criticism to counter Christianity’s claims regarding the New Testament. The focus is on understanding Jesus within Judaism based on the Torah and Talmud.

This is about Jewish and Secular Scholarship into the New Testament using the Historical Critical method and Textual Criticism within Jewish scholarship. For us Jews, the Tanakh and Talmud inform our view of scripture. In the modern age, as Jews, we struggle with texts with an academic approach. The site is pro-Tanakh and will explore history, archaeology, and textual criticism to comprehend the development of the Jesus movement before the parting of ways with Judaism. It aims to emphasize that Jesus and his followers were seen as Jewish and part of Judaism, and that the conversion of Gentiles to Judaism by the community of James and Peter continued, with some Jewish followers remaining distinctly Jewish for centuries. It is important to note that this is not a study of Jewish-Christians, but rather an examination of Jews who followed Jesus within Judaism before the emergence of Christianity. Anti-Judaism is not welcome in this group, which focuses on Jewish perspectives within an academic framework.

This is an attempt to work out the Jewish Reclamation of Jesus, trying to understand him within Judaism before Christianity existed. The group’s objective is to understand Jesus within Judaism before the influence of Christian perspectives during the historical Jesus movement. It seeks to reclaim Jesus within Judaism, separate from Christianity, Messianic, or Hebrew Roots movements. The study incorporates textual criticism, historical Jesus research, and Jewish scholarship into the New Testament to assert the following beliefs:

The New Testament lacks historical accuracy.
The New Testament is not divinely inspired.
The New Testament has not been divinely preserved.
The New Testament was written by individuals decades and even millennia after the events it portrays.
Original autographs of the New Testament do not exist.
Consequently, the New Testament is not the most reliable source for understanding the historical Jesus as a Jewish figure.
To ascertain historical accuracy, we rely on modern Jewish and secular scholarship and engage in historical reconstruction.
Through textual criticism, we strive to identify the potentially most authentic sayings of Jesus, following the Q hypothesis in relation to the synoptic gospels.
The New Testament bears the influence of Roman culture and language, making it a non-Jewish text with glimpses of Jewish source material.
Greco-Roman influences, including Hellenistic, Stoic, Gnostic, and paganistic elements (e.g., Zoroastrianism) and the Roman imperial cult, have shaped New Testament ideas of salvation and hell in a manner contrary to Jewish tradition, resulting in a narrative distinct from the Jewish religion.
Both Jewish and secular scholarship acknowledge approximately 500,000 textual errors among the 5,800 New Testament manuscripts. These variations include theological revisions that were added by later editors and were not believed by the original followers.
The seven most authentic epistles of Paul were written prior to the gospels, with the gospels reflecting the addition of Pauline theology.
Jesus might have been an actual person, with the only point of agreement among Jewish scholars being that he was baptized by John for the repentance of sins and was crucified.
Jewish scholars concur that Jesus was not born of a virgin, was not resurrected, is not a savior, may be considered a false prophet, and failed as the Messiah.
Judaism represents the religion of Jesus, while Christianity is a religion centered around Jesus.
The term “Jewish-Christian,” used to describe the early understanding of Jesus in Judaism, is a misnomer.

Understanding Jesus within Judaism can aid us in grappling with a culture in which Christianity has altered the Jewish message. Given the history of crusades, pogroms, the Holocaust, and inquisitions that have harmed the Jewish people, recognizing Jesus within a Jewish context becomes crucial.

The Catholic Church, in Nostra Aetate, ceased evangelizing Jews and acknowledged them as a covenant people within Judaism. In response, Jewish scholars released Dibre Emet, recognizing the place of Righteous Gentiles, including the offspring of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, in Olam HaBa (the world to come). While agreement may not be necessary, it is important to foster understanding and coexistence.

The Pulling the Thread Podcast