The Pulling the Thread Podcast

Jesus the Jew within Judaism – Tracing Jesus Beyond Christianity – A Jewish Reclamation of Jesus!


The Mark of the Beast is actually 616 not 666

Intriguingly, our earliest Greek manuscript 𝔓115 presents a distinct perspective on the number of the beast in Revelation 13:18, indicating it as 616 (chi, iota, stigma ΧΙϚ), contrasting with the widely known reading of 666 (chi, xi, stigma ΧΞϚ) found in Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus. Remarkably, this fragment, dated around 1,700 years old as of 2017, is the most ancient known manuscript of Revelation 13. Both are considered significant and ancient copies, and the inclusion of the number “616” holds no heretical connotation. Metzger suggests that 666 could represent a Hebrew gematria cipher for ‘Nero Caesar,’ offering his explanation for the variation between 666 and 616 and why he accepts the later variant over the oldest extant original.

It is noteworthy that the Greek word “ἀποκυέω (apokueó)” in Revelation 13:15–18, translated as “give birth to,” is laden with medical and physical implications, signifying the culmination of pregnancy. In the early Christian tradition, the apocalyptic beast, often associated with the Antichrist, was initially linked with the number 616, described as “the number of a man,” urging those with understanding to discern its significance.

Various interpretations of the phrase “Here is Wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast…” have surfaced, including translations like “to count,” “to reckon,” “to vote,” or “to decide.” The emergence of 616 in Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus, the Latin version of Tyconius, and an ancient Armenian version further solidifies its presence.

Although Irenaeus was aware of the 616 reading, he did not adopt it. Around 2005, an artifact from Papyrus 115, discovered at Oxford University’s Ashmolean Museum, unveiled the designation of the beast’s number as 616 (χις), marking the oldest extant manuscript of Revelation 13. Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus, predating Papyrus 115 but dated after its discovery, displays 616 in full: “ἑξακόσιοι δέκα ἕξ,” translating to “six hundred and sixteen.”The scholarly discourse surrounding 616 and 666 prompted some to view 616 as the original number of the beast. Paul Louis noted that 666 might have been substituted for 616 either due to the analogy with 888 (the Greek number of Jesus) or because it is a triangular number, summing up the first 36 numbers. Scholars often argue that the text was penned post Nero’s death in AD 68. The Catholic Encyclopedia indicates Revelation’s composition during the latter part of the reign of Emperor Domitian, possibly around AD 95 or 96. Some suggest the numerical reference to Nero was a code indirectly pointing to Emperor Domitian, whose rule echoed Nero’s and who heavily taxed the people of Asia (Lydia), the primary audience of the Book of Revelation.

The scholarly discourse surrounding 616 and 666 prompted some to view 616 as the original number of the beast. Paul Louis noted that 666 might have been substituted for 616 either due to the analogy with 888 (the Greek number of Jesus) or because it is a triangular number, summing up the first 36 numbers. Scholars often argue that the text was penned post Nero’s death in AD 68. The Catholic Encyclopedia indicates Revelation’s composition during the latter part of the reign of Emperor Domitian, possibly around AD 95 or 96. Some suggest the numerical reference to Nero was a code indirectly pointing to Emperor Domitian, whose rule echoed Nero’s and who heavily taxed the people of Asia (Lydia), the primary audience of the Book of Revelation.

Interestingly, the apocalyptic number 616 emerges as an alternative to the more prevalent 666, appearing not only in Irenaeus’ writings but also in several ancient Greek manuscripts. However, historical interpretations of the number primarily trace back to sources linked with the Donatist Church in North Africa during late antiquity and the early medieval era.



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About The Pulling the Thread Podcast

Pulling the Thread is a captivating podcast that delves into a plethora of thought-provoking topics. With its engaging episodes and insightful discussions, it offers a fresh perspective on various subjects, serving as a valuable source of inspiration and knowledge. Whether you’re a seasoned podcast enthusiast or a curious newcomer, Pulling the Thread guarantees to captivate your mind and keep you coming back for more. So, gear up and embark on an intellectual journey with this exceptional podcast!

The Pulling the Threads Podcast’s primary objective is to study and analyze Jesus within his Jewish context through the lens of Judaism before Christianity. Our primary objective is to study and analyze Jesus within his Jewish context, specifically from a pre-Christianity perspective. Seeking a Jewish Reclamation of Jesus, relying on Jewish and secular biblical scholars who specialize in Second Temple Judaism, the Qumran community, the Parting of Ways around 90 CE, the Historical Jesus, and Textual Criticism. Some notable scholars mentioned include Geza Vermes, Hyam Maccoby, Alan Segal, Carol Harris-Shapiro, Lawrence Kushner, Samuel Sandmel, Bart Ehrman, James Tabor, Robert Eisenman, Paula Frederiksen, and Hugh Schonfield.

The site aims to approach the New Testament using the historical-critical method and textual criticism within the realm of secular Jewish scholarship, reflecting the perspectives of mainstream Judaism today. Engaging in scholarly and polemical discussions, the group seeks to question and challenge established Christian doctrines. The main goal is to establish an independent Jewish understanding of Jesus, emphasizing his significance within a Jewish context and distancing him from centuries of Christian interpretations. Furthermore, the group aims to conduct a comprehensive historical examination of Jesus, employing textual criticism to counter Christianity’s claims regarding the New Testament. The focus is on understanding Jesus within Judaism based on the Torah and Talmud.

This is about Jewish and Secular Scholarship into the New Testament using the Historical Critical method and Textual Criticism within Jewish scholarship. For us Jews, the Tanakh and Talmud inform our view of scripture. In the modern age, as Jews, we struggle with texts with an academic approach. The site is pro-Tanakh and will explore history, archaeology, and textual criticism to comprehend the development of the Jesus movement before the parting of ways with Judaism. It aims to emphasize that Jesus and his followers were seen as Jewish and part of Judaism, and that the conversion of Gentiles to Judaism by the community of James and Peter continued, with some Jewish followers remaining distinctly Jewish for centuries. It is important to note that this is not a study of Jewish-Christians, but rather an examination of Jews who followed Jesus within Judaism before the emergence of Christianity. Anti-Judaism is not welcome in this group, which focuses on Jewish perspectives within an academic framework.

This is an attempt to work out the Jewish Reclamation of Jesus, trying to understand him within Judaism before Christianity existed. The group’s objective is to understand Jesus within Judaism before the influence of Christian perspectives during the historical Jesus movement. It seeks to reclaim Jesus within Judaism, separate from Christianity, Messianic, or Hebrew Roots movements. The study incorporates textual criticism, historical Jesus research, and Jewish scholarship into the New Testament to assert the following beliefs:

  • The New Testament lacks historical accuracy.
  • The New Testament is not divinely inspired.
  • The New Testament has not been divinely preserved.
  • The New Testament was written by individuals decades and even millennia after the events it portrays.
  • Original autographs of the New Testament do not exist.
  • Consequently, the New Testament is not the most reliable source for understanding the historical Jesus as a Jewish figure.
  • To ascertain historical accuracy, we rely on modern Jewish and secular scholarship and engage in historical reconstruction.
  • Through textual criticism, we strive to identify the potentially most authentic sayings of Jesus, following the Q hypothesis in relation to the synoptic gospels.
  • The New Testament bears the influence of Roman culture and language, making it a non-Jewish text with glimpses of Jewish source material.
  • Greco-Roman influences, including Hellenistic, Stoic, Gnostic, and paganistic elements (e.g., Zoroastrianism) and the Roman imperial cult, have shaped New Testament ideas of salvation and hell in a manner contrary to Jewish tradition, resulting in a narrative distinct from the Jewish religion.
  • Both Jewish and secular scholarship acknowledge approximately 500,000 textual errors among the 5,800 New Testament manuscripts. These variations include theological revisions that were added by later editors and were not believed by the original followers.
  • The seven most authentic epistles of Paul were written prior to the gospels, with the gospels reflecting the addition of Pauline theology.
  • Jesus might have been an actual person, with the only point of agreement among Jewish scholars being that he was baptized by John for the repentance of sins and was crucified.
  • Jewish scholars concur that Jesus was not born of a virgin, was not resurrected, is not a savior, may be considered a false prophet, and failed as the Messiah.
  • Judaism represents the religion of Jesus, while Christianity is a religion centered around Jesus.
  • The term “Jewish-Christian,” used to describe the early understanding of Jesus in Judaism, is a misnomer.

Understanding Jesus within Judaism can aid us in grappling with a culture in which Christianity has altered the Jewish message. Given the history of crusades, pogroms, the Holocaust, and inquisitions that have harmed the Jewish people, recognizing Jesus within a Jewish context becomes crucial.

The Catholic Church, in Nostra Aetate, ceased evangelizing Jews and acknowledged them as a covenant people within Judaism. In response, Jewish scholars released Dibre Emet, recognizing the place of Righteous Gentiles, including the offspring of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, in Olam HaBa (the world to come). While agreement may not be necessary, it is important to foster understanding and coexistence.

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