The Pulling the Thread Podcast

Jesus the Jew within Judaism – Tracing Jesus Beyond Christianity – A Jewish Reclamation of Jesus!


The Enigma of Apostle Paul: Unraveling Theories of Marcion’s Influence, and Controversies Shaping of Early Christianity!!!

The established narrative surrounding the Apostle Paul, a pivotal figure in early Christianity, is encountering scrutiny from a growing cohort of scholars reassessing historical assertions. A newly prevalent hypothesis proposes that Paul may not be a product of the 1st century, as conventionally believed, but rather a retroactively crafted figure from the early 2nd century, influenced by Marcion and his adherents, the Marcionites.

The theory suggesting that Paul was concocted by Marcion revolves around similarities between Paul and Josephus, both having endured wilderness periods, relying heavily on Platonic philosophy, and having served Rome to quell the Zealots. Scholars view these parallels as too significant to be coincidental, speculating that Marcion might have invented Paul as a fictional persona, drawing from Josephus’s accounts to advance his theological agenda. The theory of whether Paul was fabricated or edited by Marcion, a Marcionite community, or by Rome, or an amalgamation of influences is intriguing to say the least.

Marcion’s theologies wielded substantial influence on Christianity, particularly regarding the Torah, acceptance of the apostle Paul, the scriptural canon, and the dualistic worldview shaping Christian perspectives on good versus evil. These ideas challenged prevailing beliefs and had a lasting impact on Christian theology’s development, particularly in interpreting the Torah, and the relationship between law and grace.

Paul’s theology, outlined in his epistles, which align deeply with Marcion, played a crucial role in the separation of the messianic Nazarene sect, which later became Christianity, from Ebionite Judaism. Emphasizing faith in Christ as the core of salvation, Paul diminished the importance of adhering to Jewish laws and rituals, marking a profound theological shift away from Judaic legalism. His opposition to the Judaizers, who advocated for strict adherence to Jewish laws, intensified this separation, challenging the traditional Jewish understanding of righteousness through law observance.

Paul’s campaign against the “legalists” who opposed his teachings, commonly referred to as the Judaizers, intensified the separation. His letters, particularly Galatians and Romans, underscored the importance of faith over adherence to Mosaic laws. This stance challenged the traditional Jewish understanding of righteousness through observance of the law.

The Paul of the New Testament is very problematic. Had Paul not vehemently opposed those advocating for a strict adherence to Jewish laws within the Ebionite community, “Christianity” would have remained an internal dissenting sect within Judaism. Paul’s theological arguments and his efforts to establish a more inclusivity, open to both Jews and Gentiles, contributed significantly to the evolution of Christianity as a distinct entity separate from its Judaic roots.

Paul was called “the ring leader of the sect of the Nazarenes” (Acts 24:5) and James the Just was seen as the leader of the Ebionite Jewish community in Jerusalem. “Nazarenes” became the term that the Talmud uses for Christianity, as the Nazarenes went the way of Paul and parted ways with the Ebionites led by James the Just who remained in the Synagogues into the 8th century and beyond.

There were two main Jewish groups who followed Jesus in the First Century. And it seems that James the Just was seen as the leader of the Ebionites and Paul was seen as the leader of the Nazarenes. And they had a conflict that led to the parting of ways, that eventually gave birth to Christianity as a separate movement from Judaism.

Does Paul serve as a foil to Marcion, elucidating the replacement theology that culminated in the parting of the ways? As far as dating Paul, traditional methods of dating ancient texts, relying on Paleography, face criticism, with scholars challenging the assumption that detailed language and references authenticate a text’s timeframe.

The motivation to backdate Paul’s letters becomes apparent in the absence of pre-70 CE documents, reinforcing the foundation of early Christian writings. The Marcion priority hypothesis implies a late dating of the New Testament Gospels to the 2nd century, suggesting an early, uniform final editing of the New Testament canon in the 2nd century, was proposed by David Trobisch in his 1996 habilitation thesis accepted in Heidelberg.

Examining historical patterns, the tactic of backdating new texts post-disaster aligns with Marcion’s time, after the destruction of the temple and post Bar Kokhba, who lived into the 2nd century, overlapping with the circulation of Mark, Matthew, and Luke.

Several historical fingerprints suggest a 2nd-century context for Paul, and conflicts over circumcision in the 50s seem incongruent but align with Emperor Hadrian’s edict against genital mutilation in the early 2nd century and Bar-Kokhba (132-135 CE).

Paul’s passages with gnostic implications indicate a connection to 2nd-century Gnostic sects, raising questions about the authenticity of his letters, and the possibility that Marcion authored them himself. Scholars widely acknowledge Paul’s influence on the Gospels, shaping theological perspectives found within them.

His connections to mysticism, particularly his “three years in the desert,” bear similarities to Josephus’ account of study with the Essenes, suggesting Essene influence on Paul’s mystical experiences and his seemingly contra-Essene views.

Paul’s exposure to Greek philosophy, notably Plato’s ideas, contributed to his distinctive theological perspective. Elements of Platonism permeate Paul’s writings, revealing his engagement with Greek philosophy.

Pauline Christianity incorporated elements from Enochian Judaism, shaping the development of the Christ myth and key doctrines related to the Messiah, the Son of Man, the messianic kingdom, demonology, the resurrection, and eschatology. References to Enochian concepts appear in the works of Church Fathers, reflecting the enduring influence of these ideas on early Christian thought.

The initial physical remnants of Paul’s letters emerged in the early 3rd century, prompting inquiries into their authenticity and the potentiality that Marcion authored them, instead of simply finding them. Scholars widely recognize the impact of Paul’s writings on the Gospels, with many suggesting that the gospel writers drew inspiration from Paul’s theological concepts.

The gospels, authored post-Pauline writings, exhibit traces of his influence, fostering a common theological perspective. Paul’s extensive education and knowledge led him to incorporate elements of Plato’s philosophy into his writings. While not strictly adherent, Paul adeptly wove Platonic ideas into his theological framework, shaping a distinctive perspective within early Christianity.

The theory that Paul might be a creation of the early 2nd century, influenced by Marcion and the Marcionites, rather than a product of the 1st century, revolves around parallels with Josephus, leading to speculation that Marcion or someone in his camp crafted Paul to advance his theological agenda.

Marcion’s theological influence on Christianity, especially regarding the Torah and the acceptance of Paul, shaped Christian theology. Paul’s teachings played a pivotal role in the separation of the messianic Nazarene sect from Judaism, emphasizing similarly to Marcion that faith over obedience to the law of Moses.

The dating of Paul’s letters suggest a 2nd-century context for Paul, aligning with post-disaster authorship. The appearance of physical remnants of Paul’s letters in the early 3rd century raises questions about authenticity and the possibility of Marcion’s involvement.



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About The Pulling the Thread Podcast

Pulling the Thread is a captivating podcast that delves into a plethora of thought-provoking topics. With its engaging episodes and insightful discussions, it offers a fresh perspective on various subjects, serving as a valuable source of inspiration and knowledge. Whether you’re a seasoned podcast enthusiast or a curious newcomer, Pulling the Thread guarantees to captivate your mind and keep you coming back for more. So, gear up and embark on an intellectual journey with this exceptional podcast!

The Pulling the Threads Podcast’s primary objective is to study and analyze Jesus within his Jewish context through the lens of Judaism before Christianity. Our primary objective is to study and analyze Jesus within his Jewish context, specifically from a pre-Christianity perspective. Seeking a Jewish Reclamation of Jesus, relying on Jewish and secular biblical scholars who specialize in Second Temple Judaism, the Qumran community, the Parting of Ways around 90 CE, the Historical Jesus, and Textual Criticism. Some notable scholars mentioned include Geza Vermes, Hyam Maccoby, Alan Segal, Carol Harris-Shapiro, Lawrence Kushner, Samuel Sandmel, Bart Ehrman, James Tabor, Robert Eisenman, Paula Frederiksen, and Hugh Schonfield.

The site aims to approach the New Testament using the historical-critical method and textual criticism within the realm of secular Jewish scholarship, reflecting the perspectives of mainstream Judaism today. Engaging in scholarly and polemical discussions, the group seeks to question and challenge established Christian doctrines. The main goal is to establish an independent Jewish understanding of Jesus, emphasizing his significance within a Jewish context and distancing him from centuries of Christian interpretations. Furthermore, the group aims to conduct a comprehensive historical examination of Jesus, employing textual criticism to counter Christianity’s claims regarding the New Testament. The focus is on understanding Jesus within Judaism based on the Torah and Talmud.

This is about Jewish and Secular Scholarship into the New Testament using the Historical Critical method and Textual Criticism within Jewish scholarship. For us Jews, the Tanakh and Talmud inform our view of scripture. In the modern age, as Jews, we struggle with texts with an academic approach. The site is pro-Tanakh and will explore history, archaeology, and textual criticism to comprehend the development of the Jesus movement before the parting of ways with Judaism. It aims to emphasize that Jesus and his followers were seen as Jewish and part of Judaism, and that the conversion of Gentiles to Judaism by the community of James and Peter continued, with some Jewish followers remaining distinctly Jewish for centuries. It is important to note that this is not a study of Jewish-Christians, but rather an examination of Jews who followed Jesus within Judaism before the emergence of Christianity. Anti-Judaism is not welcome in this group, which focuses on Jewish perspectives within an academic framework.

This is an attempt to work out the Jewish Reclamation of Jesus, trying to understand him within Judaism before Christianity existed. The group’s objective is to understand Jesus within Judaism before the influence of Christian perspectives during the historical Jesus movement. It seeks to reclaim Jesus within Judaism, separate from Christianity, Messianic, or Hebrew Roots movements. The study incorporates textual criticism, historical Jesus research, and Jewish scholarship into the New Testament to assert the following beliefs:

  • The New Testament lacks historical accuracy.
  • The New Testament is not divinely inspired.
  • The New Testament has not been divinely preserved.
  • The New Testament was written by individuals decades and even millennia after the events it portrays.
  • Original autographs of the New Testament do not exist.
  • Consequently, the New Testament is not the most reliable source for understanding the historical Jesus as a Jewish figure.
  • To ascertain historical accuracy, we rely on modern Jewish and secular scholarship and engage in historical reconstruction.
  • Through textual criticism, we strive to identify the potentially most authentic sayings of Jesus, following the Q hypothesis in relation to the synoptic gospels.
  • The New Testament bears the influence of Roman culture and language, making it a non-Jewish text with glimpses of Jewish source material.
  • Greco-Roman influences, including Hellenistic, Stoic, Gnostic, and paganistic elements (e.g., Zoroastrianism) and the Roman imperial cult, have shaped New Testament ideas of salvation and hell in a manner contrary to Jewish tradition, resulting in a narrative distinct from the Jewish religion.
  • Both Jewish and secular scholarship acknowledge approximately 500,000 textual errors among the 5,800 New Testament manuscripts. These variations include theological revisions that were added by later editors and were not believed by the original followers.
  • The seven most authentic epistles of Paul were written prior to the gospels, with the gospels reflecting the addition of Pauline theology.
  • Jesus might have been an actual person, with the only point of agreement among Jewish scholars being that he was baptized by John for the repentance of sins and was crucified.
  • Jewish scholars concur that Jesus was not born of a virgin, was not resurrected, is not a savior, may be considered a false prophet, and failed as the Messiah.
  • Judaism represents the religion of Jesus, while Christianity is a religion centered around Jesus.
  • The term “Jewish-Christian,” used to describe the early understanding of Jesus in Judaism, is a misnomer.

Understanding Jesus within Judaism can aid us in grappling with a culture in which Christianity has altered the Jewish message. Given the history of crusades, pogroms, the Holocaust, and inquisitions that have harmed the Jewish people, recognizing Jesus within a Jewish context becomes crucial.

The Catholic Church, in Nostra Aetate, ceased evangelizing Jews and acknowledged them as a covenant people within Judaism. In response, Jewish scholars released Dibre Emet, recognizing the place of Righteous Gentiles, including the offspring of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, in Olam HaBa (the world to come). While agreement may not be necessary, it is important to foster understanding and coexistence.

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